Small Press Intravues:
Occasional Interviews with writers working and
publishing in the small press ecosystem
Interview #8: Kristine Snodgrass is an artist, poet, professor,
curator, and publisher living in Tallahassee, Florida. She is the author most
recently of American Apparell from AlienBuddha Press and Rather,
from Contagion Press. The proud founder and curator of Women Asemic Artists
& Visual Poets (WAAVe), Snodgrass searches to create an online space for
women in the asemic and vispo communities to share work, offer support, and
network. Her asemic and vispo work has been published in Utsanga
(Italy), Slow Forward and featured in Asemic Front 2 (AF2), South
Florida Poetry Journal, Voices de la Luna, Brave New Word,
and Talking About Strawberries. She is the art editor for SoFloPoJo.
Snodgrass has collaborated with many poets and artists and is always searching
for new collaborations. You can find some of her writing about collaboration at
TRIVIA: Voices of Feminism. Her next book, RANK, is forthcoming
from JackLeg Press (2021). More about Kristine Snodgrass at
kristinesnodgrass.com.
Michael Sikkema: You are a poet, a professor, a curator, an editor, a
publisher, and more. Are there projects that you're working on right now that
you're particularly excited about and want to share with us?
Kristine Snodgrass: Wow! That sounds like so much when you list it like that. I feel like I
am Kristine! There are several projects I am working on right now. One of the
most thrilling ones is an anthology I am editing: WAAVe Global Gallery. This is
a gallery-type anthology sponsored by the Women Asemic Artist and Visual Poets
group and published by Hysterical Books. The book has six editors each choosing
or chosen six or more contributors for a "gallery" section. Each
section is themed by the editor. The idea is to showcase as many women asemic
writers and visual poets as possible. I think that the women in the asemic
world have not been published enough. It seems to me that the same people
continue to get published by the same presses. I am hoping to change that. I am
very proud of the anthology.
I am also doing several collab
projects! I have, also, just signed a contract with JackLeg Press for my second
glitch book, RANK. This book still explores the intersections of
glitching, distortion, bodies, and societal infrastructures, but I think it is
much more complex and the glitches are more obliterated. I am finding that the
more things are obliterated, the more they are built; I refer to these glitches
"glitch infrastructures". I have been thinking a lot about structures
and strictures, even--how we build things and how things build us. I think
after doing thousands of glitches--all that deconstruction--they just have to
build back up again. And organically, too, which is weird because it is all
digital. What do I put my hands on and take apart and build up? Like gardening,
or working on a car. None of that. Maybe we need that kind of work as humans.
MS: Much of your work, your working, seems to be
creating community and spaces for other people. You also have a great
reputation as a collaborator? Can you talk about community and
collaboration and what it means to you?
KS: I love this
question. I will start with community. I do not intend to make or build (the
building!) community--that may sound surprising. I think what drives me in most
things that I do is that I get mad; when I see things that I think are not
right I want to fix them. Isn't that egotistical? Wow. For instance, I was
surprised there was not a group for women asemic artists and visual poets. I
talked with some ladies and we agreed to start one! A lot of women are shy
about their work--for many reasons--and I have also heard stories of women
feeling bullied in big groups. I try to reach out to as many women as I can and
to share their work, or collab with them, or publish them. I just do it. When I
am attached to something, it is hard for me to let go. If people are shy, I
want to encourage them, if they are scared, I will fight for them. That is it.
The many friends I have met online have been so special in my life. So many of
the women are a total inspiration to me. The WAAVe group has been a
special joy. I think there are a lot of people out there building community. I
am in admiration of Amanda Earl and Sylvia Van Nooten, for instance. They are
leaders in the asemic and vispo world and we could not live without them. SO
many others offer space and support. We are all different, yet the same. Does
that make sense?
Onto collaboration! I have said before that I was born
and raised on collaboration. When I was in Miami I met Denise Duhamel, and
later, Maureen Seaton who became a beloved teacher and friend. The two had been
collaborating since I think the late eighties, early nineties. When I worked
with them both as teachers, I just learned it. Of course, this was in what some
may call "conventional" or words on a page poetry. I was lucky to be
able to collab with Maureen Seaton and create books with her and Neil de la
Flor. Maureen and I just published another chapbook, Zero Zero; it
was a bunch of poems she found that was probably 12-15 years old! I was so
happy we could get that out. I just continued to work with folks and it has
really evolved--I guess I am known for my collaborations? Collaborating is such
a part of who I am, like all of my art. I do not have much separation between
my life and my self and my art. Collaborating is definitely a relationship for
me. And like all relationships, it has all kinds of things that can go
swimmingly or go wrong. I can usually tell right away how the energy or
connection with the person is going to be. If I don't feel a connection, the
work will most likely be static as well. I have had a few people ask to collab
with me and the spirit was just not there, but we did the work. That sounds
kind of sad! I have to be invested in the whole collaboration. There are a couple
of collaborators who I am obsessed with. I won't name them so they are not
embarrassed, but these works have been my best, I think. Can you imagine being
obsessed by me? I have an intensity that I think is probably exhausting for
people, so to stay afloat with me for a while is pretty good. I have also
considered that there is a difference, for me, when collaborating with a
specific gender. I admit that when I collaborate with men, there is a tension
and eroticism. You can see it in my work with De Villo Sloan (Whistle) or
Collin J. Rae (Glitchfetisch, BEAST), for instance (see my website for more on
these). When I collaborate with women, I do have a distinctive spirit. I love
collaboration with Karla Van Vliet. We have a lovely connection and she is one
person I can talk to on the phone for hours. I am a fan and very biased! Right
now, I am collaborating with Andrew Brenza and that work is going in an
interesting direction. I have also been working with Adam Roussopoulos, and
hope to have a project out with him. And, of course, I want to collaborate with
you more!
MS: You touch on the idea of feminism, and I wonder if
you could elaborate on what that idea means to you? How does the idea of
feminism affect your own art making and the way that you create space for
others?
KS: A friend of
the poet Diane Wakoski told me that Diane never referred to herself as a
feminist. I thought, yes this is my current feeling about it; I felt relieved,
a bit.
**
Last night I was thinking about feminism. I asked
my daughter if she considered herself a feminist (she is 18) and she said
"no" because she finds the term problematic and that it has been
relegated to a "certain kind of person". This struck me because I would
have said the same thing at her age. There is a negative stereotype of a
feminist as this radical, man-hating, hairy, mean loud-mouth; that is a shame
and is just terrible!, but the other thing to consider is that stereotypes must
be broken and examined. Step back and take a look. I have read feminist theory
and asked friends and had conversations about feminism. I am familiar with the
basics, but I am not a theorist. As an artist I do not believe my role is to
employ or explore theoretical frameworks, specifically. My art is my life and I
discover it as I go; it is not planned or preplanned or very well thought out.
It is intuitive. To define myself as a feminist as a label seems kind of
useless to me in this artistic space of mine. In contradiction, I do think that
the glitches in American Apparell and Rank really address concepts of
feminisms: gender is the main focus, promoting freedom for women, resisting and
destroying inequalities, searching for transformation and change, positive
views of sex and sexual freedom, personal is political, confronting the male
gaze. Maybe that is conflicted and ridiculous and does not make sense, but it
is how I currently think. And that is honest. There are two people here, it
seems to me: the artist and the critic. I want to stay away from the critic.
People, in their comments on my work, have defined it as
feminist (my publisher JackLeg Press, for example). You will notice that De
Villo Sloan avoids the term “feminist” in his review of my book of glitches, AMERICAN
APPARELL, and I think that is significant. (For the record, I have not had a
review of my book written by a woman or gender non-conforming human.) Few
people, if any, know my work better than Sloan.
In terms of creating spaces for women, I would say that addresses
the idea of equality and equity. Women are underrepresented in the asemic and
vispo worlds, I figure I can use my publishing outlets and assertiveness to
help out there. Some men have expressed concern that there is a women’s group
that is exclusionary, and I think that is the pith of the problem—whiny men,
but they must be confronted and educated, too.
**
I glitch t-shirts that appear in my ads on Facebook;
these shirts have what I call "quick phrases" of a feminist nature
like "brains are the new tits" or "tacos, orgasms, social
justice". The whole thing is so absurd, you know? What commodity is this
feminism now? I do not object to the t-shirts as a thing at all, it is just
that they are placed in my, I identify as a woman, Facebook account purposely
with one goal: to make money. That is absurd, intrusive, and without boundary.
A weird patriarchal commitment to Capitalist oppression, or something. Now we
are back to revolution!
For my art, because I live my art, it will reflect what
I am thinking and living. I have a reactionary/defiant nature and that comes
out with the glitching. It is pure power. I suppose feminism explores power
dynamics. I have also said that glitching can be like an erotic act. We all
have sexual power and I am not afraid of mine. It has taken me some years to
come to this. Glitching is also very destructive, but it can be a delicate and
soulful thing. It is an act and I share it with collaborators and with myself.
When I do solo glitching, there is a surge and a liberation. Maybe that is
feminist: to liberate your sexuality, to live in it truthfully. I certainly
work toward that.
I have spent all this time talking about feminism and
then insisting that I am not a feminist. That is very Kristine!
MS: Can you talk more about glitching and
deconstruction? Could you also maybe link to some of your pieces or pieces of
others that you love?
https://www.facebook.com/kristine.snodgrass/
https://www.kristinesnodgrass.com/american-apparell
https://diaphanouspress.com/2021/03/4-6-groundid-kristine-snodgrass-visual-art-digital-glitches/?fbclid=IwAR3TYWnD7ORMWJufNDnX4MX-O-6Fb9XeJKcv6tRcl9uPhB4krRlGDJnpwts
https://asemicfront2.blogspot.com/2021/02/femmeglitch-fatale-asemic-front-2.html?fbclid=IwAR1FdPJRjxT6UDTDe2JLCU3fSSzAhIOO0znExtZxzITpJ7VC1oVdqTPKa6Y&spref=fb
KS: If we are looking at glitching through a solely
"deconstructive" lens than we are missing out. I have argued that the
glitch is asemic. Recently, in a letter to De Villo Sloan, Jim Leftwich—who
coined the term asemic along with Tim Gaze in the 90s—confirmed that my work is
under an asemic umbrella. Marco Giovenale's book GLITCHASEMICS (Post
Asemic Press) is cool and has a prefatory critical essay by critical theorist
Michael Betancourt that looks into the asemic/glitch connection quite
intensively. I recommend it to anyone interested in this stuff. I will say
honestly and keeping with my ideas that I am not a fan of including an
introductory piece to a book of art (or poems for that matter) unless it is an
invitation. We should be mindful of herding the readers before they start their
journey. Of course, this is a classic argument between artists and critics, but
also just me. Glitching—and to be honest, the glitching I do is not considered
a "real" glitching, but a copycat of sorts in terms of the look of
the product—is data-bending an original source image. The base asemic
definition is work that looks like an official writing system without semantic
meaning. There are new and growing variations on this that we won't go
into here. The glitch obliterates (maybe akin to deconstruct?) a workable,
recognizable, even definable image source. What is left is still an image, if
not remnants, rather altered and still beautiful. It is somewhere between
asemics and abstract expressionism (I am a huge fan of Joan Mitchell and
Helen Frankenthaler, btw) I guess. The destruction of the original image source
reimagines a meaning, loses a meaning. That is why people freak out when they
can't find the meaning in a glitch. They all want to see some of the original
image. Especially if the original image was sexy, like a woman's body
outline or a foot in a high heel shoe (oh the feet!). The glitch then leaves
the space of deconstruction flying vastly and beautifully into a creating
moment. I believe the creation is most prominent in the aesthetic.
**
Back to AMERICAN APPARELL. I call the glitches in there
"femmeglitch". It was a term I coined on a whim and then became an
interesting journey. Frankly, I thought it was cute and addressed the feminine
aspect of the original images that were being glitched in that
series. It also made me think of Femme Fatale. What was cool, is that some
fellow--a collagist and fluxist--was flummoxed as to the term and kind of
challenged it! What does her sex have to do with the art, he said. Well, what
kind of question is that? So that was good because I think I worked out
some ideas about femmeglitch. I think I realized that the gendered aspect of
the term (sex and gender are different things) had to be related to not only
what was being glitched, but the power of the glitch to me. Art has force and
sometimes it hits too hard.
MS:
Can you talk a little about your asemic practice? I'm curious about how
it links up with ideas of concealment, revealing/revelation, performance,
defying expectations and so on. When I think of spectators, voyeuers, the gaze,
etc, all those ideas come up. Do you see asemic work as related to
glitching?
KS: I used to
think that my image on social media was performative as social media is a great
platform for performance. I control my image and how it is shared. In
truth, my sexuality belongs to me and that is authority. Female sexuality is
the thing that is desired the most by the patriarchy--well, maybe a particular
privileged sexuality-- and what I do appears to be a performance, but that is
not the case as the performance idea and term is an application from the
sexualized language of the dominant and oppressive language system we
employ--sexually performative. In order for a sexual liberation and reclamation
to have power it has to be a performance? Maybe, maybe not. Really, I am
taking ownership of my sexuality that alleviates both a personal and
collective trauma/oppression, in my eyes. That is the revolution.
My asemic calligraphy is just distorted handwriting.
When I write it I am thinking of words kind of like automatic writing. There is
an expression there, but it is also working with an aesthetic on the page that
is intuitive. I have created images with outlines of asemic
handwriting--sometimes faces. I suppose those faces were revealed through an
altered language. Perhaps transformative as I have thought of my work lately.
Faces were a theme in so much of my work. The faces I created on paper evolved
into selfies and a persona. It has been interesting to see that persona live on
social media. I am and am not my Facebook persona.
When I post glitches on Twitter, I use hashtags like
#sellme, #revolution, #bodypositivity. In terms of larger "systems" I
think these words represent some of the issues my work may address. The
commodification of female bodies, for instance, has been exacerbated by social
media advertising. "Sell me" could refer to this and it is also
perhaps a jab at the commodification of art in the art world. When I speak of
revolution, it is perhaps a call for revolution as art often has done,
historically. It is perhaps radical.
MS: Can we talk some more about process? In addition to wearing
many hats in your art community, you also excel in many mediums of making. You
work with software and paint and ink and more hands on stuff, using both
digital and very very analogue ways of making art. Can you talk about that?
KS: I would love
to talk about my hands on work. I think I am glitched-out in terms of
discussing digital work. I have over talked about it to the point of changing
my process there. I overthink and that can be baaadddd for my art.
For the ink and paint pieces I utilize an adaptation of
the Surrealist decalcomania. The is just a press of paint between two pieces of
glass. I use paper. The result is "blobs" or forms that are all
unique and resemble the viscous maculae occurring naturally in the
world. This is a technique I like to use when I feel overwhelmed with process
and thought. It grounds me and helps me to remember that I am not a digital
artist. I also write asemic calligraphy and often on these pieces. For some
reason, I tend to gravitate toward red and yellow. I have a thing with yellow,
although that changes periodically but usually comes back.
MS: Lastly, your
work is very process-based, intuitive, and improvisational. I love that. I wonder
if we could close with you talking about what obsesses you? Can you discuss
obsession?
KS: OBSESSIONS: I
have several. I may be an obsessive person, in general. I think I come off as
aloof, cerebral, and a bit cold sometimes, but I am filled with fire and
motion, so I get obsessed with collaborators (not all of them). I put a lot of
my self and soul into collaboration which can be other worldly and
devastating at the same time. I think this makes the art real. I am never fake
in a collaborative experience. That would be against the collaboration rules!
What you get is genuine and authentic, and sometimes that becomes very
intense. When I finish large collab projects, it can be relentless depression
for me. Why would I keep doing this? I don't know. So I obsess with
collaboration.
I am also obsessive about color. I love intense yellow.
I have a thing for Rasputin. I mean a thing, I mean he is my boyfriend. Not
really. I am in awe of his ability to charm his way to the Czarina of Russia,
and to hold her ear, among other things, so closely. He was also, at some
points, unkillable. He was called a cult leader and I think that is
underestimation. He was change. He was the universe. I am obsessed with sex,
but so are most people, I think. Sex and eroticism can be a big part of my
work, especially when using images of me. It also shows up in my written poetry
a lot. When you get my books—solo and collab—you will see it. I am also
obsessed and get obsessed with learning new things, especially in relation to
people I adore. I have no problem researching music or poetry or artists to an
obsessive degree to understand someone more. And I think all the time.
There are many women to boost. I do this on a regular
basis. I think the readers should take some time, today, after they read this,
to find more women artists to follow and support. Some artists to follow: Seiko
Aoki, Lova Delis, Sylvia Van Nooten, Dixie Denman, Nicola Winborn, Karla Van
Vliet. Some of my heroines are Cinzia Farina and Cheryl Penn. Naming names is
hard because we all need eyes on us, you know? So keep your eyes on us. Really
look.
I want to add that this has been a wonderful interview experience.
I think you are so talented and creative and enjoyed going back and forth with
you. I talk about weird things, so thank you for accepting me.
Peace.
MS: Thanks for all the work you do and for
sharing with us!
Michael Sikkema makes poems,
visual poems, collages, and compost.
